As promised yesterday, here’s a blog post on which you can leave the specific comments we’re soliciting from you. This would really help us (and hopefully you) out a lot. What we’re looking for is two things:
1) what questions do you have from this study or in general about the Bible and studying it?
2) What are some questions that you ask of the text as you read/study the Bible?
By the way, if you’re a little bashful about leaving a question with your name attached to the comment, you can just enter something like “Random” as the name. Even though you have to enter a valid email address, none of that shows up and your comments/questions can be completely anonymous. Thanks!
(*My great apologies…I was just informed at lunch that the blog administrators (i.e. Mikel & the teachers) can view the email addresses of whoever leave comments, even if it’s an anonymous comment. I had no idea. Sorry about that. If you want to leave a really completely anonymous comment, I guess you’ll have to put in a fake email or one that doesn’t have your name in it.*)
i have a question: Is it really alright to have all of these different translations? Honestly, if we’re serious about the Bible and what it says, is it RIGHT to have non-litteral translations? If we don’t want to add to or to take away from, I feel extremely uneasy about non-litteral translations. I know that some people might get defensive, but honestly, I think that we should take a step back and really examine if it’s alright to have a ‘dynamic translation’. I don’t necessarily disagree with paraphrases b/c they’re not representing themselves as translations from God.
Honestly, I feel it might be laziness on our parts (note I use the word “our”); we don’t want to have to think too much. We just want to be able to read the Bible in the way we want to read it. I’m all for understanding the Word, but are we being lazy? Do we not want to do a little more work? These are my thoughts and concerns, b/c I was left with an uneasy feeling after Sunday school, b/c honestly, I don’t think it’s right to use “dynamic translations” and call them “valid translations of the Bible”
Alrighty, I hope I got you to think about the subject, even if you don’t agree with me. I’d like to know what you guys think….(if anyone is reading this)
By: redmummert on April 16, 2007
at 9:55 am
Some thoughts to guide this discussion:
1) ANY translation from a language like Greek or Hebrew to a language like English (in order to be considered good, coherent English) requires some degree of interpretation in the process. What then is the appropriate level of interpretation?
2) What role do the different levels of interpretation in translation have? At what point should we stop calling it a “Bible” and call it a paraphrase? At what point should we call it worthless, counter-productive, or blasphemous? On a practical level, is it a good thing or a bad thing that there are so many “Bible” options available when I walk into a Christian book store?
By: doctorphil on April 16, 2007
at 1:59 pm
My thoughts on translations: One, some translations are out of date. It would be ignorant to find that the KJV has an impact on the reader that more modern translations have. There are translations that are more scholarly, and others that include the comments of many Christian celebrities who have slipped into the culture of Christianity and gained power to control the masses.
How does God feel about translations? I know God is more concerned with the treatment of the aliens, whether legal or illegal in our country than with this argument
By: Mike on April 16, 2007
at 9:55 pm
I was thinking about something earlier this evening. The bible was written for us, and not to us. All all the instances and stories that could have been written down, these were the most important ones that had a message. So I tend to ask myself, what am I suppose to learn from this (and there is not always a moral to all the passages).
By: Random on April 16, 2007
at 10:50 pm
2) What are some questions that you ask of the text as you read/study the Bible?
-What is God trying to communicate?
Trying to find God’s intended meaning from a text can be a long cumbersome process, but it is worth the meditation and prayer. It’s easy to rush and put a meaning to something that may not necessarily be right . (Psalm 1)
-How does the verse(s) fit in with the context of the passage, chapter, book, and Bible as a whole?
I think one of the biggest mistakes is interpreting verses/passages out of context. This can lead to faulty interpretations and inaccurate handling of the word of God (2 Tim 2:15).
-What does God want me to do?
Application may not always come to light as I read or study the Bible, but they’re apart of Christian living and commanded for followers of Christ (James 1:22-25). For me it is important with applications to keep in mind the grace of God that allows us to faithfully accomplish these works (Phil 2:12-13)
By: Adam Hoagland on April 18, 2007
at 9:47 am
Translations have always been a hot bed for discussions and one we shouldn’t be afraid to get into. It’s easy to think about translations in a trivial manner, but this can be unfruitful and arrogant. If we are told to, “do our best to accurately handle the word of God”, we should think about which word of God to use. Here are some things that have been fruitful when considering translations:
1. God has allowed many different translations
It’s easy to look down on different translations, but God, in His sovereign control, has allowed many translations to be brought forth. This doesn’t necessarily mean that all translations are equal or good.
2. God is sovereign
It’s His word and He is in control of His message. The bible is not words of man, but words of God. Even when some people preach the gospel from rivalry, we can rejoice because the gospel was preached (Phil 1:15-18). The gospel is the power of God (Rom 1:16) and not of man. The same principles can be applied to translation. The Bible is the word of God and it’s living and active, even if the translation styles differ, God can use it to bring glory to Himself.
3. Bibles have different translation styles
Each bible has a different translation style. They go from literal, like the NASB, to far more translator interpretation (dynamic) like the NLT. Though all translations have some interpretation, it varies depending on the translation method. The NIV would fit in the middle between the NASB and NLT. Translations appeal differently to individuals depending on what the reader or studier wants to accomplish with the Bible.
4. What is the purpose of the translation I’m going to use?
People use translations for different reasons. Some could use it as a primary translation for their studying and reading, while others could use it as a secondary source for comparing and some other applications. I would strongly suggest to do all your studying, reading, and memorizing from the same translation while only referencing other translations. It is easy to get confused when we start mixing and matching different versions.
5. What is your attitude towards translations?
Do you like a certain translation because it’s one that you used your whole life? Do you use it because it’s easy to read and study? Some attitudes are brought about by selfish and lazy reasons while others may be pure. Our attitudes should be held in check by the word of God and may require repentance.
6. People have different learning and reading levels
It is easy to forget that God has wired us differently in our learning and reading styles. Each Bible has a different reading level. KJV – 12th (unless you were born 400 years ago), NASB – 11th, ESV – 10th, NIV – 7th to 8th, NJKV – 7th, and NLT – 6th . Some may have a difficult time comprehending the KJV or NASB. For those who have a lower level of learning and comprehending it is very important to hear the word being taught accurately since have a hard time understanding.
7. The Spirit is at work (1 Cor 2:6-16)
Some people will shy away from the more literal translations because they are harder to understand. This may be true, but are you giving the Spirit a chance to give you understanding. A little or a lot of prayer and meditation may be needed for God to give you an understanding of certain texts. Don’t use lack of understanding as an excuse in selecting translations.
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With all that being said, for me it boils down to 2 Tim 2:15, “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” The original texts are inerrant, inspired, and sufficient and as I study the Word, I want something as close to the original that I’ll be able to understand. Since I’m limited in my Greek knowledge, I’m left to use an English translation. I’m a little uneasy with the more dynamic translations because the translators have done some interpreting for me, though I’m sure they are much wiser. Never the less, I believe the Spirit can give understanding even to the foolish, which brings me more toward a literal translation.
Through out the past years of studying the word of God, I have seen some errors in the dynamic translations that have drastically changed the meaning of words and passages, which has distorted the gospel. I know all translations aren’t perfect, but errors are much more prevalent in the dynamic translation especially as you get closer to paraphrases.
Here are some more points from John Piper, going along with what Ben shared on Sunday,
1. A more literal translation respects the original author’s way of writing. It is a way of honoring the inspired writers.
2. Translators are fallible and they may mislead the English reader if they use unnecessary paraphrases to bring out one possible meaning and conceal others.
3. A more literal translation gives preachers more confidence that they can preach what the English text says with authority that it reflects what the original Greek or Hebrew text says.
4. A more literal translation which preserves ambiguities that are really there in the original keeps open the possibility of new insight by future Bible readers.
I think those points that Dr. Piper made are very good and ones to consider as we choose a translation. Sorry for the novel, but those are some thoughts.
By the way, I like the ESV
By: Adam Hoagland on April 18, 2007
at 12:41 pm
Thanks everyone for the thoughts and comments thus far. Keep ‘em coming! And by all means, feel free to comment on people’s comments. It’d be great to really get a discussion going.
I just wanted to post a brief response to Mike’s comment above: “How does God feel about translations? I know God is more concerned with the treatment of the aliens, whether legal or illegal in our country than with this argument.” I wholeheartedly agree that the plight of the alien, the orphan, and the widow is very near and dear to the heart of the Lord (Jas. 1:27). However, His Word and its handling is very much of interest to Him as well (II Tim. 2:15). Even if there is some sort of hierarchy within the concerns of the Lord (another point to ponder…maybe for a different blog post), He is still concerned with this issue. I think it’s pretty biblical to say that the concerns of the Lord should concern us as well. And so, while we absolutely should be concerned with visiting orphans and widows in their affliction, we should also be concerned about the right handling of the Word of the Lord. I think this validates and adds a weightiness to the discussion on translation issues.
By: Matt Borg on April 18, 2007
at 2:29 pm
2) What are some questions that you ask of the text as you read/study the Bible?
I like to ask, “What does this tell me about God?”
After all, the first priority is getting to know Him and His character.
By: doctorphil on April 18, 2007
at 4:20 pm
Phil, what was the Bible translation that you mentioned in class that you liked and doesn’t have any copyright restrictions?
By: Mikel Berger on April 18, 2007
at 6:07 pm
I know that I may be a minority in the way I am thinking, but I wanted to share nonetheless. First of all, I will share that my translation of choice is New Living Translation for the most part…in other words; it is where I usually begin in my study of God’s word. I have found that for me this translation speaks most clearly. That said, there are many other translations that I like to look to and cross reference in order to get a clearer picture of what God is trying to speak to me. I think that saying that one translation is better than another really puts down the word of God. I also do not believe that a believer’s choice of translation accurately depicts their spiritual maturity. To say that we should all strive to someday graduate from one translation to the next seems really crazy. Why would God wire us all differently if this were the case?
Since God did wire us all differently I believe he uses the different translations to speak his truth to everyone. ALL Scripture is God-breathed and therefore inerrant. The NLT may not be everyone’s favorite, but I can attest to the fact that the Holy Spirit can speak through it loud and clear. I don’t feel that I am lazy because I read what can be viewed as an “easy to read” translation. On the contrary it helps me to understand the truth and to explore and to dig deeper.
To argue that the NLT is the most accurate translation would be a lost cause, as I don’t believe that myself. However, I believe that at times it can be the most precise. I know that may make some cringe. The theologians that were picked to translate the NLT are among the best in their field. They are not only people who have studied the scripture for years, but are people of great faith. What makes me have great confidence is that whenever they took a little more liberty to make the original thought clearer, a footnote is provided containing the word-for-word translation. To me instead of viewing the NLT as a cheat or short cut, it should be viewed more a lot more highly.
By: Kristin on April 18, 2007
at 8:01 pm
Kristin,
Thanks for your honesty and willingness to weigh in on the conversation . . . I apologize if there is a perceived tone of snobbishness when it comes to dynamic translations such as the NLT – the truth is, I see that kind of attitude in my life at times, and I’m ashamed to say that I’ve even brought it over into my attitude towards Bible translations.
I agree with your point about looking at the theologians who worked on each of the translation projects – they know a bunch more Greek than I do (although I probably like greek food more than them), and as long as they hold to a high view of Scripture, its comforting to know that they’ve put tons of time into the task of interpretation to help me understand God’s Word in a greater way.
I see one big problem, however, in me. I’ve developed a tendency to let everyone else do the work for me – instead of asking questions of the text, I run to my favorite commentary, and instead of chewing on and praying over a tough text for an extended amount of time, I walk across the hall to my dad’s office and ask him what he thinks it means. In short, I’ve become lazy when it comes to the studying of God’s Word. And the danger in that is I start to put all of my eggs in the basket of other people’s interpretation, and they are simply human – prone to error, slant, bias, and all the other indications that they’re sinners just like me.
I don’t want to come across like we shouldn’t avail ourselves of the work and study of godly men and women throughout the ages – far from it! I guess my point is that in my own life, I desire to become someone who wrestles with and prays over the text FIRST, and then goes to other people’s interpretations SECOND – with the former taking higher value than the latter!
I know I didn’t really address translations, per se, but I’ve gone on long enough. Maybe I’ll come back later – I’m supposed to be picking up some McDonald’s ice cream as I type!
By: Ben Whipple on April 18, 2007
at 9:19 pm
Ben,
I appreciate what you said. I, too, struggle with the balance of letting other people do the work, study, and research for me. I tend to talk to others and read what others have learned without doing further research myself. I guess the point that I wanted to make is that I think that this problem has nothing to do with a believers choice of Bible translation. I think I would be the same way (unfortunately) even if I primarily read a word-for-word translation. For me, it is simply a struggle that I have to work through with the Lord’s help.
By: Kristin on April 19, 2007
at 7:47 am
Mikel, the translation I was referring to is called the World English Bible; http://ebible.org/
It is not copyrighted, which is refreshing, since ultimately Bible publishers are a business.
I like this translation for reading long passages – I think it flows very well.
Not disgusted by the modern Bible publishing craze? – read
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/12/18/061218fa_fact1
By: philmummert on April 19, 2007
at 8:42 am
The issues of IQ, sub-culture, preferred reading-level, personality, learning style, feelings-about-gender-neutral-language, desire-to-learn, attention span, spiritual maturity, theological persuasion, denomination, intellectual snobbishness, laziness, etc.
have absolutely nothing to do with the following question:
To what degree does this translation faithfully represent the Word of God?
By: philmummert on April 19, 2007
at 10:27 am
Seriously, guys. You haven’t read the Bible until you’ve read the Hawaiian Pidgin English Bible.
http://www.pidginbible.org/index.htm
By: Dave on April 19, 2007
at 4:44 pm