I stumbled across this article today regarding a “new” line of dialogue between Christians and atheists. The article details a former pastor and his new “ministry“. Check that out (particularly the “about us“) and also a spin-off site that they launched called ChurchRater. Yes, that’s right, you can go visit a church and then rate it. Somehow this is supposed to help spread the gospel. Their purpose statement, which includes an interesting definition of evangelism, is as follows: “OTM seeks to make evangelism (helping people to connect with God) doable, practical and fun for ordinary Christians … what we call reinventing evangelism.”
My question is this: when evaluating this man and his ministry, how does what Phil said on Sunday in ABF come into play? Do you see the Jesus they advocate as being awesome or Awesome? Why? In what ways? I think it’d be great if we could get some dialogue going on this.
Interesting article. I think it does point out a lot of problems the church has (relating to unbelievers, secluding into our comfortable and Christian-only culture, etc). But of course I don’t agree with a lot of their responses to those problems. I think both those problems result because of an inadequate view of the Awesomeness of Jesus that Phil talked about. If a lot of Christians realized how awesome Jesus is they’d work a lot harder. But they’d also realize they need to be evangelism focused because of that very Awesomeness. I’d definitely include myself in that group of people.
On another note, I was reminded on Sunday when Phil talked about some people’s belief that Jesus’ death was cosmic child abuse of an article by Mark Dever about being too atonement centered.
Nothing But the Blood
“More and more evangelicals believe Christ’s atoning death is merely a grotesque creation of the medieval imagination. Really?”
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/may/9.29.html
By: Mikel Berger on May 10, 2007
at 9:28 pm
For those of us who couldn’t make it on Sunday can you recap what Phil said, that would aide greatly in the discussion.
By: Anonymous on May 11, 2007
at 12:07 pm
Interesting article to say the least. I was actually quite appalled at the thought that a non-Christian was critiquing services and giving Christians hints as to what they could do better. I feel that there is an importance to being “culturally relevant” but I also feel that in many cases seeking after this relevancy is exaggerated. When we begin to structure our services, our church government, our teachings to the modern pop-culture we seem to deny a fundamental truth. God has not changed and man has not changed. There have clearly been superficial changes in man (we dress differently, travel differently, entertained in different ways, etc) but man as man has not changed at all, and the needs of man are exactly what they have always been. Ever since the Fall he has remained exactly the same and has the same problems. (Even this new counter-attack by the atheists can be seen in the battles the Apostles fought within Greek philosophical ideologies, it’s not new). When we seek to become culturally relevant we are catering to these superficial changes while often times ignoring the fundamental problem of man–sin. What non-believers don’t need is another social program, psychological fix, entertaining service, or something that will tickle their intellectual fancy. They need to know of their sinful condition before a Holy God, they need to know of Christ’s atonement, and they need to know of the faith that lays hold of Christ and so justifies that person before a Holy God (and this message has remained the same).
By: Kyle on May 11, 2007
at 12:54 pm
While I probably wouldn’t agree with everything this ministry is about, I have to say that I really like the fact that they are trying to meet unbelievers where they are. Yes, we need to not take away from the Awesomeness of our God, but we also need to love others. After all, the greatest commandment is to love God and the second is to love others. I think that loving others means understanding them and reaching out to them to show respect and that we really care. The greatest example of this is Jesus Christ! He, God, became man. He came down to “our level” (to this sinful earth where we are) to save us. I think that to follow in His footsteps is being obedient and very much appropriate. I feel that as long as we Christians are the influencers and not the influenced, we can honor God by loving others and building His Kingdom.
This makes me think about the passage in the gospels where Jesus talks about who He is there to reach. In Mark 2:16-17 it says, “When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the “sinners” and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and ’sinners’?” On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (NIV) This passage always reminds me to get into the world of the sinners enough to reach them but not be influenced by them. And praise God that by His strength and guidance this is possible.
To sum up, I guess what I am trying to ask is, is it wrong to appeal to the unbelievers if we can lead them to the Awesomeness of God? I concede that we need to make sure there are boundaries, but at the moment in the evangelical world it seems that those boundaries are dangling on the edge of closing off our “Christian bubble” to only those that meet certain standards (I plead guilty to that). Jesus Christ died for all sinners, so shouldn’t we live to love them however that might look and lead them to their Savior?
By: Kristin Bergman on May 11, 2007
at 4:27 pm
Our culture believes it deserves a certain quality of life. That same culture has filtered its way into the church. If we do not receive the right amount of attention we immediately decide “this church is not for me”. The “Holy Writ” tell us to persevere under trials and to take joy in our suffering. I cannot find where it says come in and be all comfy, cozy. Our God is Awesome and deserves all the adoration we can give him even when we are in discomfort. Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty!
By: Angela Wilson on June 25, 2007
at 8:52 pm